Heyyyyy, it’s the Ponz!
By Mike Hillyer | Related entries in UncategorizedIf something looks too good to be true, hide your wallet and run. As an example of why, I’d like to introduce to you the concept of a Ponzi’s game.
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying returns to investors out of the money raised from subsequent investors, rather than from profits generated by any real business. A Ponzi scheme offers high short-term returns in order to entice new investors, whose money is needed to fund payouts to earlier investors, and to lure its victims into ever-bigger risks.
The high returns that Ponzi schemes advertise require an ever-increasing flow of money from investors. Once the flow of new investment stops, the scheme is doomed to collapse.
The scheme is named after a man who became notorious for using the technique, Charles Ponzi, an Italian immigrant in 1903 to the United States. The manner of Ponzi’s initial scheme was actually fairly crude, one of the apparent reasons being that he himself believed that he had found a way to legally generate large profits.
Today’s schemes are considerably more sophisticated, but the idea behind every Ponzi scheme is to exploit the basic human trait of greed.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi
So I go to Jeremy and say “Hey Jeremy, if you give me $100 I’ll get it back to you with a 20% return in a month!” Jeremy is never one to pass on a deal and gives me $100. Jeremy blogs about it on The Wealthy Blogger and recent commenters Dan, Sue, Jim, and Neville think it sounds just dandy and, trusting Jeremy (the fools), they each give me $100.
At the end of 30 days I give Jeremy $120, giving him back his $100 and $20 from the money I collected from the newcomers. Jeremy is so excited he blogs about it again, and throws the $100 back in for another go-around. His excitement spreads to the newcomers, and they blog about it! All that blogging results in 10 more people coming on board with $100 to make 20% in just a month.
I take that new money and use it to pay the newcomers their $120. For you programmers out there, let’s use some pseudo-code, shall we?
<BEGIN LOOP>
*NEWCOMERS GET EXCITED ABOUT SUCCESS OF PEOPLE WHO GET THEIR MONEY
*NEWCOMERS INVEST THEIR MONEY
*NEWCOMERS GET THEIR MONEY
*NEWCOMERS RE-INVEST THEIR MONEY
*NEWCOMERS INVITE NEW PEOPLE
<END LOOP>
I’m laughing through all of this, because the money pool just keeps growing and growing, and I control it. When I feel the time is right, I’m off to Cuba!
These schemes happen all the time, and I’m sure you have encountered them. Even your basic chain letter is in essence a Ponzi’s Game. These schemes also get more complex as time goes on, with great efforts made to appear legitimate. Many schemes attach products to the system in order to seem more like a legitimate multi-level marketing program.
There is an interesting slideshow provided by the Government of Canada at http://mmprodnt.ic.gc.ca/mmpub/competitionbureau/content/Language_select_noframe.html
that lists criteria for determining whether a multi-level marketing program is legal. The important criteria in this case are the following:
1) [D]o you have a real product or service?
- Ponzi’s Games may attach a real product, but odds are good that the product isn’t really that sell-able. People will also hardly bother with the product once into the scheme.
2) [A]re your participants expecting to make money by recruiting others to the plan?
- In a Ponzi’s game recruiting others will be tantamount to making money.
3) – [D]oes your plan force people to buy a product in order to join?
- Now the ponzie scheme probably requires a membership fee at first or the purchase of a starter kit, maybe even some of the product. The big buy-in will be your initial cash outlay so it can be given to someone higher up the chain.
So how about a real example? Let’s look at a scheme that you may have heard of if you are Canadian called Treasure Traders International:
My father in law was invited to a Treasure Traders International meeting by his wife’s uncle. He was told nothing about it before the meeting except it was a great opportunity. I just loved when he was told ‘Now it’s not a get rich quick scheme, but you do have the chance to make a lot of money really fast’.
So we head down to a meeting room at a local hotel for this meeting (alert number one folks, meetings in rented hotel ballrooms always involve selling you something). Around half or more of the people in the session are first-time attendees, and the rest invited them. Our presentation starts with an introduction of Treasure Traders International, describing how they are a large emerald distributor that works through network marketing to revolutionize a new industry, the direct distribution of Emeralds.
Yup, lemme bold it again, Emeralds. Why? I honestly do not know. Really, do you think the average jeweler is worried that he does not have a good supply line for Emeralds? Something tells me that is not an issue. But no worries, you can directly market the emeralds to your friends and neighbors or just hoard them all for yourself and make tons of jewelery with them. If that’s not enough, Treasure Traders International even has a web site where you can trade Emeralds for other goods owned by people who have too many goods but not enough emeralds.
Now that should be a warning bell right away: you can join Amway and hopefully sell a bit of it in the already over-saturated market because everyone on your block needs cleaning products, even if they hate waiting a week for a shipment when they run out of shampoo. Think of this: what would you think if bob from next door stopped by and asked if you wanted to buy a few emeralds? I personally will buy my gemstones from a jewelery store, not in a special sealed box called an ‘GemDollar’ as the guys at Treasure Traders International would have you do.
This is not the first time Emeralds have been used in questionable programs, see http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Telemarketing/Outbound/Major/Investments/gemstones.htm for some really scary stuff.
So they hand around some of these ‘GemDollars’ and talk about how each one contains one or more emeralds visible through a window and how each one is valued and appraised by The Jewelery Judge, an accredited and ethical jewelery appraiser. But what’s this? After the session I used the power of the Internet to check this ‘Jewelery Judge’ out and found this: http://www.jewelryjudge.net/SK.html. Whoops, the man who performs the appraisals was thrown out of the Jewelery Judge program for violating their ethical policy. I guess they better get those ‘GemDollars’ reprinted.
No big deal though, because the emeralds are quickly out of the picture. The bulk of the session involves the big money in building a downline. You are about to pay in $1200 to start on a journey to a treasure island. They give this big treasure map analogy of finding keys and moving out of poverty port to pick up your crew, becoming a first mate and then a captain and finally walking away with $7000 cash and some Gem Dollars (remember, you are not in a pyramid scheme, you are just selling emeralds).
The gist is that to make the money, you need to recruit people, those people need to recruit people. Once your ‘crew’ have recruited enough people, you as the captain get $7000 and some cardboard boxes with emeralds in the corner and a window to look at them. Of course, Treasure Traders International takes a cut of all of this. And your crew? Oh gee, I forgot to mention the best part. You join a crew, with 8 low tier, 4 mid tier, 2 high tier, and one top tier participants. When the low tier is filled, the pyramid splits and the 2 high tiers become top tier, the mid tiers become high tiers, and the low tiers become mid tier. So once you join on the bottom and the bottom is filled you move to mid.
Once the pyramid splits the people in your pyramid need to recruit 8 new people to fill the bottom tier (and remember, that means convincing 8 people to buy into this). Once filled, the pyramid splits and you are now one of the two on the high tier. The top tier (or ‘captain’) has his $7000, some emeralds, and Treasure Traders International now has more money.
Now that you are on the high tier, once again the people in your pyramid need to convince eight people to pay in $1200. If that happens, the pyramid splits and you are now in the top tier for the next go-round.
Oh wait, that is only if you personally get two people to join while working up the tree, but you know some suckers^?^?people, right?
So now on the top, having personally recruited two people, you are set. Once the people lower down get the eight people to join and each pay $1200, you pocket $7000 and some emeralds that you will have no idea how to unload (but what do you care, did you really do this for the gems or the $7000?)
What we have here folks is an illegal pyramid scheme. 1) While they may have a real product, it is incidental to the plan and is not really that sell-able. 2) People expect to make money by recruiting others, and cannot make money without recruiting others. 3) People have to lay out a lot of cash to join, which they will not see if they do not personally recruit a certain number of people and additionally be part of a pyramid for a few cycles.
We were told again that everything was on the up and up, but you didn’t have to look very closely to see for yourself that the program is not only illegal, it is a house of cards waiting for a stiff breeze. When your income depends on doubling the size of your group, you will eventually run out of people on the planet who have not joined your program, then it’s over. That of course assumes the authorities do not shut you down in the meantime. My father and I left feeling a combination of amusement at the gullibility of others and concern for those who were being taken.
Can it work? It certainly can, especially if you get in early. However, just because it works does not make it ethical or legal. I saw people bringing their entire extended family to sign up; each of whom stands to lose a good sum of money just so their relative can take their money, all in the hopes that they can later take money from someone else. I see a lot of hurt and anger in their future.
Stay away from these pyramid schemes, they are a ticking time bomb: if you do not get to the top tier and out before the program gets shut down or the supply of new people dries up you lose your money. If it gets shut down you could face charges for involvement in an illegal pyramid.
Thoroughly investigate any program before putting your money on the line. Check the links I provided for MLM programs and determine if it looks like a legal MLM or an illegal pyramid scheme.
Check sites like MLM Watchdog, Pyramid Scheme Alert, and PhoneBusters to determine if the program is legitimate, and if something looks too good to be true then it almost certainly is.
A simple Internet search on Treasure Traders International reveals that it was profiled by CBC and found to be questionable, and that the FactNet Message boards are full of posts warning people away from Treasure Traders International. Do your research, it’s your money!
I don’t deny that it is indeed possible to get rich quick, but you do so by doing something unique and innovative, not by doing the same thing an exponentially growing group of people are doing. Stay away from Treasure Traders International, and send your friends here if you hear that they are looking at it.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 13th, 2005 and is filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site.
April 13th, 2005 at 2:52 pm
So, you never told me where to send my $100…
April 13th, 2005 at 3:04 pm
Whoops sorry about that, just Paypal it to me and get 5 of your friends to sign up and you will be qualified for the $120.
April 13th, 2005 at 6:08 pm
HOW DARE YOU INVOLVE ME IN A POST INVOLVING THAT SCAM. I WOULD NEVER DO THAT.
…..I would go to Canada instead!!!
You should take a look at a company that actually sucked a few of my friends in. Pre-Paid Legal (PPD).
The company sells pre-paid legal plans (like insurance for legal advice), but their company is setup in a way which is similar to a pyramid scheme.
Most of the salesmen in the company simply spend all their time recruiting other people to sell the plans for them and so on. So most of the revenue is just coming from new affiliates. They are always getting in trouble for “questionable accounting” and such.
-Nev
April 13th, 2005 at 6:10 pm
P.S.
I have a rule about linking only sites that have been around for AT LEAST 3 months with consistently good posts. I will link you at that time.
-Nev
April 13th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
Sorry Neville, I was too persuasive and you were sucked in. People need to realize that in these pyramids all they do is pass the money up, so please link this post on link day so it can build a little Google juice.
April 14th, 2005 at 6:13 am
PIPS (http://pips.pipsinc.com/index.php) is one of the newer ones, with a great twist. It’s convinced people it’s an investment system (which earns you 2% A DAY!!!). The longer you keep your money in, the more money you “make”. It then takes 3 months to get your money out.
The net effect? Everyone thinks they’re making thousands of dollars, so they tell their friends. Their friends join, they make thousands. Then their friends join. But hardly anybody’s taking money out, because everyone’s “making money”.
They’ve received 250M$ in people’s money, but only had to pay out 12M$, because people keep it in.
This one’s close to home, since all of my wife’s family are doing this (one young couple went from broke to paying cash for their house in just a year). It’s scary to watch. But it’s hard to object, since many people are pulling money out on a regular basis, allowing them to actually retire after just 10 months in the program.
…
I wonder how many people will be checking this out now, thanks to this post
April 20th, 2005 at 11:18 am
regarding Treasure Traders: it is a great opportunity …Mike Hillyer - you should check your facts out before you post. the jeweler story is not accurate at all… the emerald are real, experience with the company is a better story then your “observation” You don;t have all the proper facts so you should not say things you are speculating on…. and Factnet is ridiculous…. get your facts form a reliable source - like those that are doinf well with TTI and are helping others too.
April 20th, 2005 at 11:46 am
I never claimed the Emeralds were fake, just that they were incidental to the operation. Nobody joins TTI, buys emeralds and tries to sell them to others, they just work on getting more people to join to build their pyramid. The jeweler story is indeed accurate, or at least in my mind an official press release from the Jewellery Judge is accurate in my mind.
You can do well with TTI, but that does not make it ethical or legal.
April 20th, 2005 at 7:03 pm
Mike - just for the record… the press release is not accurate. If you are truly interested in the real story - let me know..
April 23rd, 2005 at 10:30 am
Feel free to enlighten us, but why would an organization falsely claim that a member was kicked out for ethical violations? That would seem to be an ethical violation to me.
April 23rd, 2005 at 10:46 am
you hit the nail on the head - and there is action being put in place for it. you may wish to speak to the horse’s mouth and get the facts straight http://www.jewelleryjudge.ca or email directly to sknight@jewelleryjudge.ca and speak to Steven. I did before I joined TTI and saw lots of reasons to understand why Barry in New York put that statement out… there is more then meets the eye here - believe me.(or don’t!) Hope you see the need to get the facts right so that info passed is correct. Have a great weekend -
April 23rd, 2005 at 1:00 pm
What is this action? Has it been before a judge? Is Mr. Knight taking this to court or is TTI doing it on his behalf? I see nothing on his site that even attempts to refute the fact that Steven was kicked out for not adhering to the ethical standards of the program. In any case the question was never with the validity of his appraisals but the fact that the emeralds he appraises are still incidental to a Pinzi’s game and only in place to add a sense of legitimacy to the pyramid underneath.
April 24th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
I’m a bit confused - Reason being, TTI are now in the Uk. I recently attended the presentation at the invite of a friend and of course it seemed quite exciting, but as I’m one to do my research (after all it’s my money at stake)I cannot understand how they’ve been allowed to operate in the uk if there’s questions about the scheme in Canada… I must comment on some facts: They are renting a mtg room in a fancy bldg in hammersmith, london, there seems to be more of immigrants attending, they are apparently only taking CASH for the down payment of £1200 to get on the “board” (ship), £5 for presentation, £35 for starter pack, plus I can’t seem to get into this gotrading.net site where you can trade like on ebay?? - so where are the goods to be traded. And is it true that banks can accept the gems as collateral for loans?? Are emaralds really that much in demand? I personally don’t care to be a ship captain if emaralds I pay £1800 for will return £5000… if it were really true that you can sell them??? Anyone know anything??
April 24th, 2005 at 3:28 pm
They can operate in the UK when their actions are questionable in Canada because there is no regulating authority they have to be approved by in order to operate.
The large number of immigrants is not suprising, if you look at the article at http://ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ot_emeralds20040512 you will find that even in Canada the program preys on a lot of immigrants.
The gotrading site requires a stiff signup fee even if you can access it and I am not convinced there are a lot of goods available on the site for trading (after all when it is really a money pyramid I am guessing most just shove the emeralds in a drawer anyway). I’m sure if you work at it enough you can liquify your emeralds, but the emeralds are not really the point to most TTI participants.
April 24th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
The Emeralds are what they say they are - our group has had several appraised independently and all came back worth if not a little more - a lot more! One of us had her $4900 emerald come back at $9100 ( that was the best of the lot)
TTI has now Trade Partners - we are wanting to go to other places instead of gotrading due to what Mike has alread stated. we have trade partners that include: 2nd largest Fur company in North America (gone blank on the name at the moment!), Dell computers, Miracle Mate Vaccum, The Blue Jays - and we have more coming each month…. so for those that do not want Gems…. I am sticking to them only because they are an asset. One of our group did use them ($15000 worth) as collateral on a condo. Hope this helps anyone looking at this great opportunity!
April 24th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
Yes yes, the gems are real, but you continue to miss the forest for the trees. Real gems does not exclude the program from being a Ponzi’s game.
Can you point to a Dell site or page where you trade your emeralds for a Dell PC? Or is it a Dell reseller? Are you not concerned that your appraisals are inaccurate? Perhaps this is one of the reasons the appraiser was ejected from the Jewellery Judge program.
April 25th, 2005 at 6:02 am
Yes, I have the same question as Mike - Can you actually go on a Dell (or any of the others) website and purchase a computer?? Also, how much do jewellery appraisals cost?? Plus has anyone actually sold their gems and made a real gain?? Actual occurrences are better than theoretical - Anyone got facts on actual financial gains from these gems other than appraisals/valuations?? Or is it just playing the ponzi that one gets money from? In which case it’s trully about robbing john to pay paul???
April 25th, 2005 at 6:56 am
Oh boy …. 1st of all: re: appraisals - they are conservative - and as I said before - independents have appraised the same gems at a little or in some case much higher value. You must go to a appraiser that in qualified in colored gems ( not all are)
2- we do have someone that has found a buyer for her gems and made a profit. realize - a jewerler will not pay retail for your gems - he has his wholesaler - and he want to sell retail. you have to find your buyers. Remember you only paid 36% - so even if you put an ad in the paper - you will be able to sell over what you paid.
3- again Mike - you do not have your facts straight re the Jewelery judge. Mr Knight created the “jewellery judge” concept and sold it to the New York Mr Brock. He still owns the name and Canadian rights. Even dispite their business dispute- Mr Brock states that Mr Knight is a good appraiser - and his system is the one they use.
4 - Dell - TTI has a trade deal done. If you choose NOT to redeem your gems and complete the payment and paperwork - you can choose the computer package they have put together for us. It includes lap top or computer and several “learning” packages. I have not really looked at it as my interest is in the gems for asset building and I have both a lap top and home computer.
Anyway - thank you for the opportunity to help clear up some stuff - TTI is not for everybody - just like everything else . If it is not appealing to you - don’t get involved. For those of us that are enjoying the business and the helping of others - we are happy and re connecting with old friends and business peers and it is a great thing!
Good Luck in your ventures - whichever you choose!
April 25th, 2005 at 7:17 am
Well dina, while I doubt you will get many believers here you are free to present your case. My ‘parting shot’, as it were, would be to point out that the reason you are reconnecting with so many old friends and business peers is because you need more and more people to continue and advance in the program. Without their $1800 you cannot work your way to captian. This is because the program is taking their money and giving it to you (after taking a cut of course). Dina I hope it becomes apparent before it is too late and you ruin some relationships permanently.
April 25th, 2005 at 11:15 am
Mike - thanks for your opinion. I am connecting with old friends because I have a wonderful way for them to have a 2nd stream of income. All of us are achieving results and we are happy to be able to spend time together on a great venture. I am sharing a wonderful thing with people I care about! We all win … there is no ruining - only strenghtening of friendships and making new ones with a common goal. Let’s agree to disagree… deal?
April 25th, 2005 at 11:54 am
Well, someone on the bottom is eventually going to lose but sure, I’ll never convince you that TTI is illegal and unethical, and you’ll never convince me otherwise.
April 26th, 2005 at 1:36 am
I worked out the pyramid this way ($/£):No response needed, but does this break it down to how it actually works??
Get on board (8 new pple x 1800)
Become crew (8 new pple x 1800)
First Mate (8 new pple x 1800)
& at Captain position (8 x 1800)
TOTAL (1800X8)X4= 57,600 from 32 people
4 captains make out with 7000 x 4=28,000
Difference of 29,600 goes to business/owner (TTI)
- It actually takes 32 newcomers for one to make it to captain. How long does that actually take in time & effort of convincing others to join?
- The individuals do most of the work of introducing others, but TTI gets more than half of total income.
- Lastly, why do they take ‘cash’ only? Is it to remove trace evidence shd you want your money back, and can u actually get it back should wish to get out, as a legit business should have a cash back provision of sorts.
April 26th, 2005 at 6:36 am
Not that it changes the point you make, but there is about $1000 worth of emeralds per captain going out as well, so change to 28,000 for captains to 32,000-35,000.
April 26th, 2005 at 2:25 pm
sorry but you are so wrong about some of the things you are thinking is the TTI business. I am not going to try to explain everything… too mush energy and time to spend… I do however suggest that you do go back and re listen to the presentation..there is a cash back - in legal terms and time and the “cash only” is soon to be changed through - and it is now not just cash - Money order, draft etc are fine and are trace evidence… cheques can bounce and chasing people for a new cheque (cash now!) takes more time then we all have in our busy lives!
There is nothing wrong with the company making money - but the amount you are talking about is totally off - you are forgetting the huge residual bonuses and rewards that come as you build your business - that comes directly from the company ( unlike the $7000) Anyway … I said I won’t try to explain - but it is hard to not want to when the info is wrong. oh… each Captian gets $5000 worth of gems - which yes - she/he has paid $1800 for and the company makes $ on… who would be in business if it did not make money!? This is really a win win for all that understand it fully and are living it. Cristal - go back and ask questions to those that are DOING the business - not those knocking it! Don’t miss out because of misinformation or lack of…
April 26th, 2005 at 8:02 pm
I think I may indeed go back and listen again, but I’m sure I won’t be convinced, and I doubt they would answer the hard questions if I asked them in front of the group:
1: I’m not interested in recruiting anyone, can I just buy some emeralds and sell them without being in the treasure cruise?
2: What happens if I do not recruit two people before making captain?
3: Have you yourself sold your emeralds? If not, why not? Do you know anyone who has?
4: What happens if I decide I want out before making captain? Can I get my $1200 or $1800 back?
5: What happens if I am the last person to join TTI? Do we all just buy wholesale emeralds and sell them at a profit?
I would hope that those who take your advice and ask questions of those doing the business ask such questions and do not get sucked in by a really cheesy powerpoint presentation and dollar signs.
April 27th, 2005 at 3:46 am
Come on Dina, the point here is that this pyramid schemes would not catch peoples attention if they did not seem possible or to make sense - (they are very intelligently thought off and planned), but I feel the catch is:
- The con that it’s easy/quick money (at the presentation I attended they talked about aiming to be captain in 2/3 weeks (even discouraging taking 6mths as not ambitious enough) where wd I get 32+ people with that kinda ready cash to join in that time?)
- Also, your point on the bonuses: Those come into play when you become captain multiple times, work it out: 32×2= 64 pple, 32×3= 96 pple, etc. Time in which TTI have deposited the cash, earning an interest. Obviously, in this scenario, the easy/quick cash factor of the scheme is lost, UNLESS:
- You make it a full time job.
- Would you leave a guaranteed pay job to do this? ‘Possibly’ you will make captain on target time + multiple captain.
I second all of Mike’s questions.
April 27th, 2005 at 3:40 pm
In a hurry but just can’t resist!
Mike:
1 - yes - you can
2 - you just need two sales - you can do #1 or buy yourself - but if you are not interested in “playing the game” - don’t!
However to answer correctly - you would just get “leap frogged” by the next person in line that has his/her 2 sales. you do not lose… but if you are so close to being Cap and collecting - why not?
3 No I have not - not intersted in doing so - mine are my “show and tell” tools and I would like more to build assets. One in our group used his for collateral ( $15,000 worth of Emeralds) when buying his 1st condo. he is 21 yrs old. Others have - one lady traded hers for a nice Diamond because she is not into Emeralds! Others have sold - but you do have to find buyers - retail stores won;t pay retail to you.(of course)
4 - of course not! That money was for a purchase of product. If you have paid the $1800 - that means you have your $5000 worth of gems - or you may have choosen other options. you do have the normal 10 days after you have given your $1200 - to get it back
5 - you can - again find private buyers or small store that will pay you more then you paid -
Cristal: I am not sure where you went - but I have to tell you - almost all our group has made Cap in 3- 6 weeks. It is team and group effort and you get what you put in. All of us do this as a 2nd source of income- we are all professionals in other businesses.
Guys - by your questions- it really is clear you are not fully understanding TTI - I am NOT being a smarty here - I just want you to know - you are misunderstanding!
It may not be for you… I just know from what I see and my group’s team spirit and all the results around me that this is a great opportunity. I am going to stop defending this - you do more homework and really learn the business and you will see. all the things you are asking show the lack of really knowing how this works - and they are questions I asked … but I spent 3 months learning and talking and picking things apart - when satisfied - I jumped in and am having a ball - putting one night a week into it - sometimes 2 nights due to schedules - some phone time and… what a great 2nd income. Hope you check it out more - not for me - but for yourselves - you are missing out! None of my posts are meant in any way other then my passion to explain some things clearly misunderstood. good luck all….it has been fun - but too energy zapping! Go to a meeting 100 times if you have to and then make a decision! I went to 4….
April 27th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
It all seems so sketchy. I have a hard time believing that it’s legit. Correct me if im wrong but why should I have to pay out for the Opportuniy Breifing. its just an info session, i wouldnt pay to here the Manager at starbucks tell me how I can move up the ladder to get to manager, distric manager or head office, i can just ask some one whose gotten there… oh wait, thats against the rules with TTI isnt it, your not allowed to tell me. how eles are you gonna con my $ outta me. Secondly what hapopens when the recruitment chain breaks and the recruit of my recruit cant find anyone to buy in where does that leave me? am i out my 1200? or the immigrent who uses there savings to buy in, but then their recruits are unsucsessfull. Its no fault of them.
April 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
1) How do I get my gems before becoming captain?
2) So the way to wealth is getting others to join then?
3) So most people do not sell the emeralds? I thought the focus of TTI was supposed to be the distribution of emeralds and all the members just shelve them and enjoy the $7000?
4) Aah, but if I do not get people to join I do not see my emeralds unless I shell out more money? I thought the $1200 was for emeralds?
5) So I could just pay the $25, pay $1200 at a time for $5000 in emeralds and make my money reselling? You are honestly telling me that if all the people in TTI never recruited another person the program would go one with everyone happy?
I can respect someone who says ‘yes, it is a pyramid scheme, and I am making serious cash, so long suckers!’ but why go on defending the emerald front on the operation?
April 28th, 2005 at 6:42 am
I really can;t keep doing this - you really have to go back to a meeting and really see the whole thing to understand - it is clear - that it is “clear as mud” at this point! hahaa
you pay 36% of $5000 so - the 1200 is a deposit and anytime up to a year - you can either pay the difference of $600 and tax and get your gems or get the trade vouchers that allow you to get other products. some do this right away - some wait - it is up to YOU. By the way in 4 and a half months of being in business -TTI has become the largest distributer of emerald in Canada ( surpassing Peoples that does about $160000 in emerald sales a DAY) Trading for product - IS distributing gems - the companies are taking the gems on trade, distributors are buying gems and that puchase get them the option to have a business if they want to - a spot on the board is free and is an option. You would not take it if you were not interested in participating…. you are mixing the 2 up. Please do yourself a favor - I am trying to do one for you by explaining - but you do not know me and this is a people’s business… do yourslef the same favor I am trying to do for you and go back to a meeting! I am not sure where you are but if you are close to me I would be happy to help -not a pitch just a offer to help! Either way you really need to understand this properly! bye for now!
By the way - just sharing some great news with you - cuz I am excited - I had lost my gem worth $3600 2 weeks ago (it fell out of my briefcase without my knowledge) and get this - some wonderful man found it in the parking lot and has reported it and I will be meeting him tonight to have it returned to me! Now that is a rare and honest thing! He did not have to do that at all - he could have just kept it and one on would have known! Be happy for me - it is a gorgous teardrop top quailty emerald (S 1 graded) that took me 4 hours to pick!! WOW! the guy is my hero!have a great day!
April 28th, 2005 at 6:51 am
Always with the go to a meeting thing. Of course, the first rule of TTI is that you don’t talk about TTI. You send people to the meetings so the most persuasive one available can pitch.
Ok, so I think I’ll hit another meeting, pay my $25, get my gem catalog and go selling. When I get orders based on the catalog I’ll pay wholesale for the emeralds that were ordered from the catalog and make the hand over fist money TTI promises. Sounds like a plan.
April 28th, 2005 at 7:06 am
the reason for the “meeting thing” it for the exact thing that going on here - miscommunication and misinformation!
and - why be sarcastic? i am trying to help that is all… you make your decisions - good luck and when you are serious - and if you are close - let me know…
May 3rd, 2005 at 8:36 am
My friend just got sucked into this and I am still trying to talk him out of it. I unknowingly got dragged to a meeting (there’s 2 hrs of my life I will never get back). The whole thing just screams scam! How can people get sucked into this? Anyway, I do have a point that no one has made yet. What happens when you overflood the market with a product? Anyone? The value drops on it. If they give a boxes of emeralds to 10000 people how much are those emeralds going to be worth. Exactly…squat. Run while you can folks. You have to work hard for your money and don’t let anyone tell you different.
June 10th, 2005 at 9:12 am
I’ve seen a few people get sucked into these schemes and very few got any money back. A similar pyramid scheme was doing the rounds a couple of years back round where I live, and apparently there were people carrying huge sums of money around in shopping bags to pass on to people above them in the chain - this itself is obviously asking for trouble.
I think a pyramid scheme may also have been responsible for bringing down the Albanian economy int he late 90s, if I remember correctly.
June 27th, 2005 at 12:38 pm
I dont see how it is illegal because people make money..plus gemdollars can be traded in for a better product worth more than you paid…In stocks, you dont get shit in return and there is a tonne of fees, this gemcash is excellent and hasnt even scratched the surface of the industry…try to be more positive when it comes to making money for your sick ghetto families..why not write a blog about people trapped int he ghetto using drugs to escape rathers than a completly legal marketing team that has been showered with success..
July 1st, 2005 at 11:28 pm
I agree with Mike, this is an obvious scam. Thanks for the insight, I hope this explaination helps others become aware before they, their friends and families invest and lose/
October 11th, 2005 at 5:06 pm
Yes,you can make money on this scheme…provided you are willing to sucker friends and family…Yes,the emeralds are genuine…but people who have sold them have made a fraction of the apraisal figure,and lots of jewllers wont touch them…and,bear in mind,once you crack open the gemdollar,TTI won’t have anything to do with it..after all,”You may have switched the gems”…Gotrading.net want a hundred bucks before you trade,and then no-one wants the emeralds…so people get desperate,and end up selling the emeralds on ebay (ebay canada is full of them) for a fraction of the apraisal value….Alan Knight Didn’t found Jewlry Judge…he invented the software they use….and he WAS kicked out for policy violation…but he now uses a variation of the jewllry Judge name…I think as a sweetener…(after all the software is his)
Eventually,this whole pack of cards will topple,just like previous “Aeroplane” pyramids
You should listen to “wealthy blogger” people…he talks sense!