Frugality Versus Cheapness
By Mike Hillyer | Related entries in Financial ManagementWhile browsing the Technorati list of blogs linking to us, I came across a less than glowing link in another blog entry titled The Lost (thank God) Art of Frugality
by Tommy Chang:
The frugal lifestyle, or being a cheap ass, is the advice that many self help books and websites, such as weathlyblogger.com give. They claim that you too can die a millionaire if you live a frugal lifestyle, meaning eat cheap, dress cheap, buy used everything, never go out, never travel, even buy a wrecked car thats been totaled, never spend an extra penny on anything other than basic neccessities. What good will a million dollars do in the afterlife?
Cheap ass people really annoy me. I find it very rude when cheap asses bust out a calculator on the dinner table to calculate EXACTLY, down to the cent, how much their share of the bill is. I don’t know how some people can live such a mediocre, cheap existence.
For me, being wealthy isn’t about being financially rich. Wealthy is being about being happy, and although having money is certainly part of being happy, it isn’t everything.
You only have a single chance at life. I whether die a happy old man who has a nice house, ten cars, traveled the world and with a penny in the bank then a bitter old man with a million dollars. What a wasted life that would be.
Ouch Tommy, that’s pretty harsh. I put the post in a draft and planned to write a rebuttal later (and here I go). While it stewed, FrugalGirl wrote a great post about frugality:
Frugalness was one of the personal virtues that was to be aspired to by every Roman Citizen.
This seems to be the antithesis of the conspicuous consumption practiced in today’s society. Or is it? How is frugalness perceived in our society? Do your coworkers bemoan the fact that you bring your lunch or carpool? Do your friends chuckle at your use of rewards cards, or your insistence on walking rather than cabbing? Maybe it’s the opposite… do people view frugalness as a charming quirk, something that is endearing or attractive? Is your personal thrift-store style seen as hip? Do they admire the skills that come from doing things yourself, rather than hiring someone?
It would appear that no, people do not respect frugality or consider it a virtue anymore, or at least not a certain portion of society. Instead we have started respecting materialism. We impress people with what we have, not how we paid for it. This of course explains why people are deeper in debt than ever, they need more things to impress their friends (and themselves) with.
Tommy missed the point. Frugality is not about dying rich, it is about retiring rich. Frugality does not me denying yourself of all luxuries, it means controlling your cash flow. If you read the link to the Roman virtues provided by FrugalGirl, it says this:
Frugalitas: “Frugalness” Economy and simplicity of style, without being miserly.
Source: http://www.crystalinks.com/romanvirtues.html
I think that about covers it. Being miserly is being cheap, if you are being cheap you are not being frugal. I have nice things, I have nice clothes, I eat out from time to time and drive a nice car. I am frugal because I did not spend more than necessary on my goods.
I remember living with my parents as a teenager. My mother got some extra cash and we were going to buy a bigscreen TV. Rather than just drop cash on it, she shopped around, found an outgoing display model at a local dealer and negotiated a great price on it. We had a nice 52″ TV at around half the price of retail. Was this being cheap? No, it was being frugal.
I later enhanced the home theater experience with a Pro-Logic system and a Laserdisc player. Once again, I found display models and got a great deal. Was I being cheap? No, I was being frugal. I even built up a nice laserdisc collection over time, some through ebay, some new, and some previously viewed. The great part of optical media like DVDs and Laserdiscs is they are safe to buy used: if you see scratches, don’t buy. Buy unscratched discs from a place with a 30 day warranty and after the first watching you will know if it has issues. The media won’t really degrade over time so there is no real concern that the movies are previously viewed. Is this being cheap? I don’t think so.
We need to restore frugality as a respected virtue. If we could, people would carry less debt and be more satisfied with what they have and the knowledge that they own things and the things do not own them. The money they save would allow them to fund a future that has a fine standard of living. Those who are not frugal had better have great paying jobs, because if they are constantly spending all they make and throwing your money around on materialistic wants, they will never have enough at retirement to have ‘a nice house, ten cars, traveled the world and with a penny in the bank’.
Oh and for the record, I just divide the bill roughly by the number of people (if I don’t pay for another outright), and I tip generously. I do not buy totaled cars, but cars with easily repairable damage, saving over 50% over what others will pay at a dealer.
In the end I hope to be judged by what I have accomplished in life, not by what I have acquired, so why spend all I have without regard for cost or usefulness?
This entry was posted on Friday, June 10th, 2005 and is filed under Financial Management. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site.
June 11th, 2005 at 6:46 am
I’d send ‘em a TrackBack so his readers will be able to find your response.
–
fivecentnickel.com
June 11th, 2005 at 6:56 am
Well my comment went unmoderated but we’ll see what a trackback does.
June 11th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
Wow - what an unfair description of the frugal lifestyle. I love being frugal - it means NEVER worrying about whether or not I should pay this bill before that bill - I have more than enough money for my bills so it never matters to me. I don’t have to scrape around…I feel freedom…actually, total freedom from debt will be mine by the end of this year - all debt, including mortgage, will be paid off. Can Tommy say the same? If so, good for him. If not, shut up about the “awfulness” of being frugal.
June 11th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
If dying with ten cars in a “nice home’s” garage is what makes someone content, then I wouldn’t necessarily expect that person to understand “frugal” anyway.
Others might apply the term “frugal” to me, but I don’t apply it to myself. If frugal means managing your money so that you don’t have to whip out a calculator after dinner to calculate your exact portion of the bill, and that you’re perfectly able to pick up the tab for everyone else at the table if you wish, then yeah, I guess I’m frugal. If “frugal” means that I’ve done the work to be able to buy what I want, when I want, without incurring debt, then I’m frugal.
Mr. Chang is correct, though, in that some people spend their lives obsessing over the most minute of details, all in the desperate belief that this constitutes something akin to “absolute control.” It does not. There is no such thing.
Know what’s most important to you, what brings you the most joy and peace, and direct your money to those places.
June 12th, 2005 at 9:00 am
I have replied…
http://www.tommychang.net/2005/06/my-reply-to-wealthly-blogger.htm
Enjoy!
June 12th, 2005 at 9:56 am
Well, looks like I’m still a ‘cheap ass’. Such is life. If you live within your means, put some money away for the future, and have paid your bills, you can spend the rest any way you like. If that means shopping around and getting a good deal for the things you want all the better, but once the three pre-requisites are met you are free to do what you want (in my opinion).
June 12th, 2005 at 2:24 pm
I think Tommy should pull his head out of his ass and realize that being frugal doesn’t mean being a “cheap ass”. Does he shop during a sales event, or would that implicate his as being cheap? I bet he only buy maximum retail, thus letting him maintain his self image of being “rich”. Wake up Tommy boy, he who dies with the most toys doesn’t win! He who takes good care of his family, by negotiating the best deals on items throughout life…..wins!!!!!
June 13th, 2005 at 4:30 am
Wins? What exactly do you win? A cookie?
Cheap ass people crack me up.
Yes I shop during sales and negotiate pricing on big ticket items (my cars, my house, my fiancee’s engagement ring, etc). However unlike you people, I do not exclusively shop during sales events and do not negotiate on every single item I buy. I have and will paid full retail on things that I want.
And talking about self image of being “rich”. Hey I’m not the one who shops at thrift stores for used $5 Ralph Lauren shirts or used $10 Armani jeans. Those of you that are being “frugal” are simply trying to pretend to be rich. Dress nicely in your used clothes, drive that piece of crap Ford Taurus pretending that its a nice car, eat out every now and then. You people are the ones who need to wake up to reality! Maybe instead of accepting mediocrity, maybe you should strive to be more successful. Instead of counting the few pennies you save doing what you are doing, start investing in real estate and the stock market. Do you want to keep pretending to be rich or be rich?
PS - Buying and wearing used clothes - now that is just plain nasty!
June 13th, 2005 at 6:18 am
Wow. You really, really don’t get it. I’m thinking you’re just trying to agitate people - this is all a game - that is your main goal. Hopefully that’s the case. If not, you are really coming off as very offensive and disrespectful.
You’re not talking reality. You are lumping the human race into two groups. And it is bogus.
SOME PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD NEW CLOTHES OR WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS A SPECIAL THING. STOP TALKING ABOUT USED CLOTHES. NOT EVERYONE IS AS FORTUNATE AS YOU.
Some people count their family as making them rich, not Armani jeans or Ralph Lauren shirts. Many people.
I am personally fortunate and I am thankful for it. Not everyone is as fortunate as me. That doesn’t make them less a person than me or deserving of some sort of vulgar label and I am not going to rub anything in their faces, either - that’d be wrong.
Be thankful for what you’ve got.
June 13th, 2005 at 6:50 am
I hate the world frugal. To many people it’s the same as “cheap”. I tend to disagree. Advocates of frugality generally point out the many ways in our lives we can be frugal. Nobody ever said we have to be frugal in everything, and many of us aren’t. Unless you are extremely wealthy, you are probably frugal in some areas of your life. I don’t quibble over the lunch check either. I am generous with my family and friends. I also use public transportation, ‘eat in’ as much as possible, and save my change. I buy books new and used and read news media in hard print and online. I make choices, and some of them are frugal. It depends on how I prioritize. Frugality is a great way to save money, especially if you don’t have a great deal of money coming in. It doesn’t mean I’m cheap, it means I have priorities, and avoid impulse buying.
June 13th, 2005 at 9:01 am
I agree…Tommy is an agitator. He lumps society into two groups…cheap asses and himself. What a superior complex he suffers from!
June 13th, 2005 at 9:18 am
I sense a flamewar building… I think enough has been said everyone. In the end there are spenders and savers and they both have a right to their own habits when it comes to managing their money.
June 13th, 2005 at 10:54 am
Boys and girls, rich and poor, whites and blacks, the haves and the have nots, spenders and savers; there are many different separations of society but cheap asses and me is a new one.
June 13th, 2005 at 11:26 am
Tommy, Tommy, it does seem that you do set yourself above the norm. Frugality is indeed something to be admired.
June 13th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
Frugality Versus Cheapness
I’m posting this because it seems like a lot of GTD devotees are concerned not only with taking control of their time, but also of their money. For other frugal GTDites, here’s a great post from the Wealthy Blogger…
…
June 14th, 2005 at 8:38 am
I want to be finantially independent.
I want to work (if I decide to work) on what I enjoy the most, not on what pays me the most.
To do that, I have to follow a finantially sensible lifestile. (or frugal if you want to call it that way).
The person that tries to have 10 cars and a mansion without having a good finantial plan… will most probably never get there. That person will go bankrupt a few times.
June 16th, 2005 at 1:29 pm
It’s funny how Tommy Chang knows nothing about US social history but everything about arrogance and bravado. The idea and practice of Frugality is as old as the advent of the first Europeans on the continent. Frugality is about being wise with money and knowing the difference between needs and wants and having the common sense to act on that knowledge. Frugality is not about material starvation it’s about knowing better than corporate/pop culture what your real needs and wants are. It’s the ultimate difference in being independent vs. being a consumer. It’s about being forward looking instead of feeding your immediate imaginary appetite. It’s about being mature rather than feeding on every immature desire. It’s about knowing better and then doing better. Cheapness and miserlyness are not part of the frugal universe. Actually these sentiments, if Tommy knew his history, were thrown at frugal people who could and would not be fooled into spending money on products and services that were not useful, economically, spiritually or rationally in any way. I suggest Mr. Chang learn a bit more about the history of frugality in America.
June 16th, 2005 at 4:59 pm
You’re right, I don’t know and I don’t want to know.
You people think you know everything about money but guess what, you don’t. Saving money is more about making it. While you’re saving little pennies here and there, I’m investing in real estate and the stock market.
We all seem to have to same goal, correct? Just two different approaches, two different means to the same end. =)
June 16th, 2005 at 5:10 pm
Frugality has nothing to do with investing. I’ve had money in the stock market since I was 10 years old. Frugality is, in a long sentence, making sure you get a good value for your money while living within your means and enjoying life to the fullest that you are able while making sure you can enjoy life to the fullest you are able for the rest of your life. Obviously fullest varies with income level as not everyone makes the same amount of money.
June 17th, 2005 at 11:02 am
Tommy you talk all big but I bet you live in a small flat, take the bus to your work place, and have two cents in your bank account. Frugality is something to be treasured not insulted!
June 17th, 2005 at 1:52 pm
Ok, now I really see a flamewar starting. I think enough has been said, so maybe it’s time to shut the comments off on this one.